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Interview by Foreign Minister Zbigniew Rau with Nowy Świat 24

17.09.2023

Interview by Foreign Minister Zbigniew Rau with Nowy Świat 24

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  1. What kind of lesson for the Polish raison d'état and foreign policy does the criminal Soviet aggression of 17 September 1939 teach us?

The fourth partition of Poland, related to the Soviet Union joining the aggression against Poland on 17 September 1939, was an important, breakthrough event, both historically and currently. It was a turning point in international policy, ending the so-called Versailles age. This period was mostly shaped by the American political and military intervention in Europe in 1917-1919. It brought ideas of democratisation in international relations, the American objection to European imperialisms, the development of international law with pursuits to delegalize war, and concepts of collective defence as a guarantee of peace. The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact and the joint German-Soviet aggression against Poland introduced completely different ideas to the global policy, restored the method of armed aggression to delimit spheres of influence, and rejected democratisation of international relations for the sake of the Concert of Europe and imperial practices. A new age began, based on a logic of international policy imposed by Stalin and Hitler and on the primacy of force over law, which lasted until 1989 when the Iron Curtain collapsed. Unfortunately, at the 1945 Yalta Conference, the democratic powers and leaders of the free world accepted the standards developed by the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact for the sake of false realism. As a matter of fact, Stalin forced the democratic states into acknowledging the terms of the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact and the logic of spheres of influence. It was in Yalta that the Soviet Union received the democratic powers' approval to move the border of its sphere of influence from the Vistula to the Elbe. Today, president Biden and other leaders of the democratic world make a diagnosis that the age based on international cooperation, globalisation and inclusivity of collaboration for the sake of peace is over. The world is threatened by the return of policy based on antagonisms. This is why Poland must actively remind others about the experience of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact and, later on, of Yalta, to prevent the development of such standards of the new era that will endanger the peace in Europe. First of all, we have to underline that one must not yield to imperialism, nor even neo-imperial tendencies. The democratic countries must not accept the standards of behaviour imposed by autocratic imperialism. Secondly, a compromise between democracy and authoritarianism is impossible because it always takes place at the expense of freedom. When democracy gives up on the defence of freedom and territorial integrity, it has nothing to do with realism. But it always endangers peace and, ultimately, also freedom and democracy.

  1. How did the geopolitical importance of Poland change after Russia's invasion of Ukraine on 24 February 2022?

Before this aggression, Belarus governed by dictator Lukashenko joined the implementation of Russia's plan to destabilise Poland through a hybrid attack consisting in trafficking thousands of illegal migrants at our border and provoking a political crisis on the NATO's Eastern flank. This was aimed at destabilising Poland internally and reducing its efficiency to mobilise the world against the new attack on Ukraine, already in the planning phase. As it comes to interpreting the intentions of the Russian imperialism, Poland has well-established credibility, not only for historical reasons. In the past decades, Poland demanded that the threat be eliminated thanks to Georgia's and Ukraine's NATO membership. As a result of Berlin's and Paris's objection, based on hopes for a compromise with the Russian imperialism, this recommendation was not accepted. Our fears came true, when Russia attacked Georgia and Ukraine. In December 2021, Russia demanded a withdrawal of NATO's troops from Poland and the Baltic States. Poland had to show, by own example, the way towards the right response to the Russian attempts. We proved that providing Ukraine with military, political, economic and humanitarian assistance is possible and that we must not yield to Russia's blackmail and threats of escalation. While increasing our expenditure on defence, we point out to our allies that, once the Russian-Ukrainian war is over, we will have to face the threat of another Russian attack. And Europe should be capable of resisting such conventional aggression on its own. Poland is, therefore, perceived as a credible partner in its assessments of the strategic situation and Russia's intentions, and a one that fulfils its commitments to its allies. This is why our influence in the international policy has increased.

  1. Is the 2023 BRICS summit a sign of the pursuit of an alternative world order? What challenges to the Polish foreign policy result from the increasing number of countries joining this group?

No alternative world order exists and it cannot be created without the most developed countries in the world, which are still grouped in the Atlantic area, NATO, EU and G7. In reality, the BRICS countries do not have much in common, nor do they have mutual interests, but would all like to participate in this format to increase their bargaining position. Firstly, their position with the United States and their transatlantic allies. Secondly, the one with China. The age of globalisation and cooperation, initiated after the Iron Curtain's fall, is over. A new age has begun. All the security strategies published recently read that the world is going to be more antagonised. One of the factors that are still a source of the American domination in the modern world is a network of alliances and potential for forming them. China will try to fill this gap as compared to the United States by investing in BRICS. This statement immediately increased the number of countries wishing to benefit from this kind of Chinese policy and obtain some privileges or other profits from China. This is where we get to the question of community of values and interests. It is impossible to build an alternative to the American alliance system with the sole aim of benefiting from China or improving one's bargaining position with the United States. That's because these are tactical, not strategic, motivations. There are two important matters from Poland's point of view. Poland supports the democratisation of international relations as it prevents the rebirth of the Concert of Europe. All the countries that experienced colonialism are our natural allies in this regard. We oppose any colonial practices and imperial tendencies. Poland does not have any colonial tradition and must strive to use this fortunate fact in its policy, also by tightening cooperation with countries liberating themselves from colonial dependencies. We also consider the rise of antagonistic tendencies in international policy as a phenomenon detrimental to Poland. We understand their sources, but are worried about their possible consequences for the global peace. Poland is vitally interested in strengthening peace and reducing tensions, while at the same time remaining a trustworthy and credible member of the transatlantic community and ally of the United States.

4.   How important is the Three Seas Initiative for the Polish raison d'état and foreign policy?

From Poland's perspective, the Three Seas Initiative is a format enabling us to provide equal opportunities in Europe and to reinforce the subjectivity of all EU countries located between the Baltic Sea, the Black Sea and the Adriatic Sea. The common denominator of all these countries are their efforts to overcome the development lagging which was largely caused by the fact that, for centuries, this part of Europe had been subject to the competition of powers. Relatively often, the Western Europe presents the argument that its citizens are wealthier and, thus, should have a bigger say when it comes to Europe's future or the direction of the European integration. However, the source of this accumulated wealth is not intellectual excellency of the Western European communities, but the fact that they were the ones colonising, and not the ones colonised, through overexploitation. The Central European countries, in a broad sense, were victims of partitions and the plundering policy of colonial powers, the so-called orphaned imperialisms. Furthermore, after World War II, the Western European economies and infrastructure were able to quickly recover thanks to a protective umbrella spread over the Western Europe by the United States. As the umbrella also covered the Central Europe after the end of the Cold War, the region's countries were offered a historical opportunity to catch up with the Western Europe in terms of development and wealth. The Three Seas Initiative is supposed to speed up this process and contribute to the democratisation of the development policy in the European Union. It is a very important tool in the Polish foreign policy which should be developed and strengthened. This is our plan.

  1. How should the migration policy support Poland's sovereignty?

The migration policy, like any other public policy, must benefit Poland and its society. Such policy is implemented by all high-developed countries in the world. It is not based on altruism, but on economic interests and efforts to make their own economies competitive thanks to migrants' aspirations to improve their financial and social status. However, this policy must meet several fundamental conditions. First, it must not lead to a violation of good social governance consisting, among other things, of the citizens' security. Second, this policy must be based on the respect of freedom, Polish customs and law. This means that the policy must help meet the expectations of Polish entrepreneurs facing a labour shortage in Poland. It is worth reminding that, thanks to the government of Law and Justice, we have the lowest unemployment rate in history. The Polish economy keeps growing, along with salaries and the demand for labour force. When it is impossible to find them in Poland, entrepreneurs look for workers abroad. A migration policy referring to human freedom must function on a voluntary basis. The forced displacement will be a source of frustration for both migrants and the Polish society. It is, therefore, out of question to approve of the European Union forcing migrants, who have dreamt about living in another European country, to settle in Poland. Such ideas are a threat to the security of Polish citizens. For this reason, to enable Poles to assess the ideas regarding the displacement of illegal migrants, forced by the European Commission and some Western European countries, we announced a referendum on this subject. It is also out of question to tolerate the illegal migration, initiated by Russia's and Belarus's special services. No one can impose on us a migration policy that is contrary to Poland's interests and endangers the security of Polish citizens. We cannot allow France's, Germany's or Sweden's mistakes to be repeated.

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